Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Let'S Talk let's an original podcast from the Lettings Hub. Hello and welcome to the latest episode of our podcast, let's Talk. Let's. I'm Heidi, the CEO of the Lettings Hub, the tenant referencing business that Got Good at tech. Let's Talk Lets is our regular roundup of news and views on a whole range of subjects spanning the private rental sector. Today I'm delighted to welcome Lisa Isaacs to the pod. She is a very experienced property journalist and content creator. She has more than 28 years of experience in our property sector. She's worked at the Negotiator, a moving magazine and was also the editor of what House Your New Home and Mortgage Matters. Alongside this she's written a book and played a key role in the industry, having been a judge for both the the Letting Agency of the Year awards and what House Awards.
What a mouthful. And if that's not enough, she's also a property investor and a director of an estate management company. Lisa, a big welcome to you to our podcast. Let's get started. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today. Can you start by introducing yourself to our listeners and share a little bit more about your extensive experience in the property sector?
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Thank you very much Heidi. I started in the property industry back in the late 90s and my primary role in the industry was as a journalist. I worked for a long time on print magazines and sadly I saw their demise when everything went online. I then had a short stint in public relations where I was tempted over to the dark side as many journalists would say. And then once I had my children I became a self employed content creator and kept my hand in with a journalistic role as well.
[00:01:59] Speaker B: Excellent. And when I kind of went through and read all of the things that you've done, you've had such an extensive, you know, sounds like really fast paced career. So from how you started out to where you've kind of ended up now, like tell us about some of the kind of journeys along the way, some of the people that may have inspired you or some pivotal moments along that journey.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: Of course my first job was at a really small local publishers and they had a very diverse portfolio. But in there was one magazine called you'd New Home and it was actually in the 90s, the official magazine of the NHBC, the New Homes organisation for people. And we were approached by Comag and they said to us we think this magazine could sell in WHSmith's and that was the start of my career. I joined as an editorial Assistant and they employed a very swish editor from London. She had a slot on Richard and Judy doing flower arranging and she came to her small, lowly publishers and I learned everything from her, basically. I made her tea, I opened her post, I even babysat her children. And then it went from there.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: Okay, wow.
And what have been like, say some of your really career highlights. Obviously it sounds like you just take the opportunity that kind of comes your way and very much kind of get into things, which I think's definitely been kind of a motto really of lots of our guests. But have you had some really difficult times, I suppose, along that journey and have you had to kind of dig deep really to get through to the next stage of your career and what you really want to achieve?
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Absolutely. After nearly 12 years working on the journalistic side, I was approached by a very big property PR agency. They dangled a huge carrot and I made a leap and I left the journalism behind and I went to a company and became associate director and I looked after Barclay Homes on their most prestigious accounts. But within the first week I was crying at the top of the fire exit on the phone to my old colleague saying I've made an absolutely huge mistake. I was so out of my comfort zone. The client were lovely, but I didn't understand any of their language or their terminology and I just really, as you say, I had to dig deep and just learn on the job. I ended up staying there for three and a half years, but I had two periods of maternity leave and I think my love of journalism and writing just so strong that I never went back to PR and kind of went back to the writing. And by then content creation had become a big thing. The paper magazines were almost all gone and everybody wanted the content for publishing online.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And that kind of, I suppose, takes us to the next kind of stage in your career because you wrote an article in the Negotiator actually exploring whether agents should all become content creators and what the future of property marketing may look like, with an emphasis being more on social media such as TikTok, which is actually where today's house hunters really are and potentially spending less time looking at the portals. I'm sure it's a topic that our audience would love to hear a bit more about and find it quite interesting indeed.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: One of my first self employed clients was an estate agent and I went onto their website and I clicked on their blog page and it was just a blank screen and I just picked up the phone and said, this isn't good. I said, if potential clients are looking, it looks like you're not in touch, you're not keeping in line with, you know, news, you're not reporting and informing people that could put business your way. And that was the start of the relationship. And I wrote their blogs for them. But further down the line I got more involved to social media, e newsletters, just a little bit more content that was outside of, you know, your bog standard blog or your news item.
I still do some social media for clients, but I would say content creation is now a job in itself. I think you can't just do a couple of Facebook messages every now and then. I think especially for agents.
Instagram, TikTok, they're such competitive marketplaces, it's real churn, you know, you just refresh and there's a whole new load of things that you've never seen before. Refresh again and your content is gone. So it's that consistency. And I found over the whole 28 years of working with house builders and estate agents, some of them can do it themselves, but they don't have the time. And they have the blank page syndrome where they might start to write content and they either can't get it from their head onto the screen or they don't have the time. It falls to the bottom of their to do list. And I can totally see why content creators have carved a niche for themselves.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: And have you always been good with words, Lisa?
[00:07:07] Speaker A: I would say it's been something that I've never wanted to do anything else. I did English at A level, I did media studies at A level and when I had to do a careers project at 14, I wanted to be a feature writer. I'm absolutely useless with maths. I'm not very practical. So for me, writing was something that it doesn't ever feel like a job and it comes naturally to me. And I fell into property. I never set out to be a property writer, but I fell in love with it quite early and 28 years later I've never looked back.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Because I think that also might kind of scare some people, isn't it? Is the fact that at unless they feel that they're really good with words, they don't necessarily think that they're up to the job to write content or they then might think as you know, another barrier. I can't afford somebody else to do it for me or where do I go to get somebody to help me? And if I only want them to do an hour a day, two hours a day, a little bit a week, what are the other barriers that you have seen that kind of people come up with that you could maybe help them overcome with some advice?
[00:08:15] Speaker A: I would say the unprofessional posts and it irks me when I see Facebook and Instagram posts from estate agents and the grammar's not so great. There may be typos, there may be spelling errors. For me that's a killer because people are paying you good money to sell their property or let their property and they want a slick professional service. And I think if your content output isn't that, you just start to question the level of service you may get as a home mover.
So having, even if it's having someone check over your work, that's one thing, Brand consistency is another. If you have some random and a rotating amount of staff that post, sometimes it doesn't all sound the same. So having one person in charge of the content is really important. And then if you're moving into the video content game, and that is very much what we're seeing on TikTok and Instagram, having hosted videos seems to be the real thing at the moment. And I'm seeing more hosted videos for everyday properties, not just the. You may follow Grant Bates. His videos are slick. They're for 3, 4, 5 million pound properties. But I'm seeing more and more creep on my feed of, you know, 400,000 pound family homes, home counties, starter homes. But they've got someone hosting it and I think that's probably where stage agents need to head to. But unless they're really confident on camera, I think they're going to need to draft the professionals in.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: And that's just where someone, for example, would go in and do a tour. Really? And talk about the property.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah. For those that are old enough, it's a little bit like through the Keyhole with Lloyd Grossman when they would have someone go into a property and narrate. They're talking to camera, they're showing people around each room, they're highlighting maybe some really great appliances or a view out of the window, but they are talking to you as a person through the lens of a camera. They're like almost mini TV shows. And I think that's really going to take estate agents out of their comfort zone. Not the high end people, but the high street agents. I think they're going to have to move with this and they're going to find it really difficult.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: But I guess if they're doing it well, they save themselves so much time, don't they? Because you can see so much from a video compared to a photograph, let's say. And sometimes the photographs are staged to make look as good as they can, or wide lens to make the room look slightly bigger than it maybe is. And so they get people to reviewing and then they're disappointed because it's not quite what they thought. If it's actually done well and positioned well, it surely should make kind of good business sense as well. They're not showing people around that are not interested in the property or people that really are interested in the property get it up to the top of their list. Would you say that there's other benefits to the agent as well?
[00:11:02] Speaker A: Absolutely. I think unless you're building new homes where you have a written brochure, they're selling off plan. I write probably one brochure a week for new developments. An estate agent is never going to invest that money in a copywriter to write a 60 page brochure on one property. I think videos can become a lower cost entry point to better exposure. And funny you should mention about writing. I just compiled a new article for the negotiator on material information and how photographs may be in breach. It could be that the photographer crops something out, they choose a slightly different angle. And there is a big sentiment growing behind 360 tools and videos that actually they are fairer fit for material information, that they are showing warts and all. And I think that's a really good point and a huge benefit.
[00:11:56] Speaker B: I can definitely see inventories being done on video.
You know, in, in the olden days, it just used to be a written list, didn't it? Then we kind of went to photographs as well. But actually a video with information kind of gives a much better feel, doesn't it, I think. And you can see a lot more.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: It does. And I think for the, for the millennials and the, the younger people, their consumption is video and I think that's what they're very comfortable with. And as I said, even the most basic of properties, as long as you have to pick your vendors and your landlords wisely, not every house will lend itself to being videoed. But I think they can cherry pick ones and really generate some interest with them.
[00:12:38] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And what about the portals then? Obviously your article, you know, was saying, you know, wake up, things are changing. That's not how people want to find houses anymore. What is your view on the portals and how they're going to change over time?
[00:12:53] Speaker A: I still think people love a list and I think that's at the heart of it. I think they love comparing, contrasting, seeing those results in front of them.
I don't see the demise of the portals just yet, but I do think that their power will ebb slightly as estate agents flood social media more. And especially if they. If they're very shrewd with their hashtagging and their targeting, I think that we could see some power go. But I think for the older generations, I do think places like rightmove and Zoopla will still hold some power.
[00:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
And another project that you worked on was a research project with the data experts, Dataloft, looking at how agents can use their own local knowledge of the market to win new business, improve service and a host of things. Actually share a little bit more with us about that project, because that sounds quite interesting as well.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: I often hear agents say their USP is their local knowledge, and that's absolutely true. If you have a High street branch that's staffed by local people, that should be your key to success. And I think having data at your fingertips just demonstrates your kind of power in an area. But it's so persuasive for people. And I would say that the kind of data that home movers want is changing, I think, from COVID many more people working from home. So whereas before it was always very much driven on the homes where the shortest commute closest to the tube station, I think people are far more driven by what's the quality of the broadband service, how strong is the mobile phone signal here? And I think that's the kind of new data that people are looking for. Families will always want to know instantly what are the Ofsted ratings of the schools. They're the kind of things that people really want to know. They're invested.
Many people make lifestyle moves and they are now motivated by slightly different things.
And as much as we always say to people, you should buy a house, that's your home, you shouldn't worry about its value. People still want to know that they're buying in an area where the values have got room to rise. So I think if agents can start demonstrating more about appreciation prospects in maybe the same way as a landlord would always want to know, is there room for appreciation? It might buy to let. I think. I think that would really appeal more to homeowners, too.
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Okay, excellent. Have you had any feedback or anecdotal kind of evidence back from the research that, you know, agents are taking notice of that and are changing what they do?
[00:15:44] Speaker A: I think from attending the negotiator conferences where I kind of live, report far more Agents are turning up to the seminars that talk about data than before, and I've been doing that for quite, quite a few years. And I think they know they need to set themselves apart and knowledge is power. So just from. Just from what people are listening to, tuning into, we know that they're far more interested in data. I think they're really evolving and there's a really bad kind of impression of estate agents that they're Luddites, but I don't think they are. I think they are far more tuning in now.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: Excellent.
You're also a landlord yourself, Lisa, and I guess our audience will be curious about how you're finding the market at the moment.
We obviously have big legislation changes, probably incoming at some point later this year, and that's leading to some concern. But as a landlord, how are you feeling?
[00:16:38] Speaker A: Brutally honest. I'm one of the many landlords thinking of selling up. So for a small piece of background, I own a flat with my husband. It's leasehold and we thought our biggest problem would be unruly tenants. We thought the place would get trash, where you would have a high turnover. But we've been incredibly lucky over the last nearly decade that our tenants have been absolutely brilliant.
But the service charge attached has risen from £400 a year to last year it was £3,000 and we have zero control.
The building is mixed, its owner, occupiers and landlords. I don't know whether we would ever do a right to manage. Nobody wants to take charge of that. I don't want to buy the freehold.
We had a flood in the basement and our insurance premiums went up.
And when you couple that with the taxation, when we lost the mortgage interest relief with, you know, renters rights bill coming in, I feel like a charity. I'm not rich landlord. I don't know. There are many rich landlords and there's no joy in the property. But I don't want to give my tenant notice because he's a really good guy. I think there are lots of landlords around feeling exactly the same.
[00:17:57] Speaker B: So do you think some landlords might sit tight for now and then when the tenant decides to vacate, they might choose that as their opportunity?
[00:18:05] Speaker A: I think if you haven't served a Section 21 by now, I don't think you've got much option but to sit tight and wait for notice. I think it's going to be very complex and time consuming to give notice using a Section 8. It's going to be more trouble than it's worth.
I think a lot of landlords will be watching and waiting. Mortgage rates, my buy to let mortgage runs out, fixed rate runs out in January. That will, the new rate that we're offered will kind of determine what we do next. The value of the property that, you know, it's leasehold, it's never going to go up massively in value. But we used to make good money on the rent. We don't anymore because our outgoings have grown so much. And I think we'll just, we'll come to a head next year and we'll have to decide.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: Yeah, and do you, do you manage the property yourself Lisa, or do you have an agent to help you?
[00:19:00] Speaker A: I do employ an agent and that the listeners may find that hard to believe because I know the, you know, I read all the government white papers and the acts and the bills. I could probably run it myself but.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: Because I suppose my question was kind of leading is to, you know, if you're a landlord, you know, imagine you, but not in the space, not in the property space. And with all this change coming and not having an agent, do you think landlords are going to, you know, get scared and either, you know, and realize they either can't afford an agent based on, you know, where their mortgage premiums have gone to, etc. Etc. Or do you think landlords will turn to an agent for help to make sure they stay safe? Because obviously the stakes, you know, they're high with the fines that are coming, aren't they? You know, it's not, it's not a game that you can play at anymore. You have to be an expert.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Unfortunately, I think ignorance is bliss for many landlords who don't work in the property sector. It's very difficult to put yourself in the shoes of man on the street. I think if you ask most landlords who are not in our industry, they've probably even never heard of the renters rights bill.
So it's the role of the letting agent to inform their clients, their landlord clients of the changes. But for those thousands of landlords that are self managing, they might not even know what's going on. And I think there have actually been some surveys to say that they've got no idea. They don't know what this is, they don't know what's going to change. And so those landlords will probably just run along without trouble.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I think there's definitely interesting times ahead. I'm not sure there's great times ahead but I definitely think they're going to be interesting Lisa, thank you so much for. You know, we've covered a whole host of things that we've gone all over the place. But before you go, our regular listeners of let's Talk let's will know that we ask every guest to share a funny story or anecdote. And I think you've got one for us. Might go back a few years.
[00:21:00] Speaker A: It certainly does. When I was working at your new home magazine, we were heavily involved in exhibitions and we used to travel far and wide to set up a stand to try and flog some of our magazines.
We attended an exhibition in London and we thought we were very cutting edge technology because we'd set up a booth and we'd interviewed somebody very high up at the nhbc and we had the camcorder with us and we took it on a night out at an Irish pub and we had a very good time and much alcohol was consumed. And when we boarded the tube train the next morning, and we thought we'd look back, play back the video of the very prestigious house building figure, we discovered it been taped over completely by some drunken antics.
I'll never forget because it was the days before things in the Cloud. It was on a small tape and it was gone forever. And we had to break it to our managing director that us young bucks had gone out, got drunk in waxy O'Connors and ruined everything. And that sticks with me forever. The face of my colleague on the tube train when she just. It cut straight to a round of flaming sambucas and not the interview.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: That is a brilliant story. And I think we've all got those stories where something has happened in our past that then every time you're in that a similar situation again, it instantly comes back. I know Colleen, who is our marketing director, she's. She sat on this pod right now, many, many years ago, she sent an email to a customer, to customers, and it went multiple, multiple times, like thousands of times.
And I think every time now we say, Cole, if you can just send an email, I'm sure it plays on her mind. I'm sure we remember it.
Lisa, thank you very much for your time and all your insight for our listeners. To ensure you never miss an episode of let's Talk, let's please follow us on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast. Please leave us a review if you like what you hear. And thank you all very much for listening. Let's Talk lets an original podcast from the Lettings Hub.
