Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign let's Talk let's an original podcast from the Lettings Hub. Hello and welcome to the latest episode of our podcast, let's Talk Let. I'm Heidi, the CEO of the Lettings Hub, the tenant referencing business that got good at tech. Let's Talk Lets is our regular roundup of news and views on a whole range of subjects planning the private rented sector. In this session I'm absolutely delighted to be joined by Jade Maker, who has many hats. Jade is a property data specialist, a business development manager at Bricks and Logic, and she's also very recently been appointed to the Head of Wellbeing at the Women in Residential Property. I'm really happy to have Jade on our podcast today talking about neurodiversity and adhd. I know Jade would like me to say that she's incredibly proud to celebrate the differences and and that ADHD is definitely her superpower. So welcome on our podcast. Jade, please introduce yourself to our listeners and tell them a little bit more about what you do and how your career has taken you to here.
Tidy.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Thanks for having me on board.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: So hello everyone.
[00:01:12] Speaker B: My name's Jade Maker. I am a business development manager for Bricks and Logic, which is a proptech company and I'm also the head of Wellbeing for Women in Residential Property as Heidi mentioned. So my journey up until now has been very scattered from leaving school. I actually left school and was a hairdresser as you can probably, I guess it's completely different now. I then went into the rounds of call center sales to selling sky warranties and all the other fun stuff that was popular back then. I then did a circulation of business support, various other roles in between operations managers and all of that stuff and then went into a proper sales role before COVID and then Covid obviously flipped everything on his head and here we are back in the world property. So that is of an insight to me.
[00:01:56] Speaker A: So what, what a diverse career up until that point. And although like you said, you know, there was obviously sales as a theme that ran throughout that how did you then end up in the property sector and kind of what's been your career through the last few years?
[00:02:11] Speaker B: So actually it was a blessing and a curse Covid happening because I got money hungry before COVID and that was the only reason I never made the jump into property because the salary was everything. And as we know, the salaries in lettings roles like nettings, negotiation, sales negotiators aren't the best, but the commissions obviously account for that. Whereas me in my head, in my Younger years wasn't thinking about that commission, it was just thinking about the base salary and what could then be earned on top. So I never really made the jump. And then Covid hit. I lost my job. I learned to live with nothing. And when I come out of it, I've really gone through a journey of personal development through those that those few years that we were lockdown, it was kind of then being able to put my time into my passion, which has always been property. So I actually started a role with Leaders as a property manager.
Very quickly moved to a company in Vegas Hill called Hunters because the role with Leaders was very much sit behind the computer and not go out and see the world, which for someone with adhd, as you can probably guess, doesn't really fit the bill. So it led me to work for Hunters again as a property manager and there I learned a lot about kind of the lettings process, was kind of doing more of A360 lettings and property management role as just a property manager and then moved to do work in a student agency in Brighton because that's where I'm actually from. I did one student season, fell out of love with property management and decided to go back into prop tech after about six months of battling with myself internally of whether I wanted to go back into the world of sales or if I didn't. So I thought I would use my skill, which was sales and my passion, which is property, and amalgamate the two together. And at the time I didn't have a clue that proptech was a thing. I just hoped it was and luckily managed to land myself right with Homebox. So that was kind of my journey into property and then into Proptech.
[00:03:57] Speaker A: Excellent. And you mentioned there that obviously sitting behind a desk all of the time is not completely your thing. And as I mentioned in the opening, you're very proud to be neurodivergent, having been diagnosed with ADHD about 20 years ago. Now can you share with our listeners what is adhd, what it means for you and how does it actually impact you day to day? Let's kind of take us on an educational journey.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Yes. So for me it kind of has completely the wrong name. So ADHD stands for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. Now I would disagree that we have an attention deficit, we hyper focus on things we like and we have no interest in the things that we don't like. And that to me is quite normal. But I can hyper fixate into something and do three, three days worth of work in four hours. So it has its upsides there. So the attention deficit is a slight detergent from what it actually really means. It can be quite confusing. The hyperactivity side of things I absolutely understand. That's actually what I was diagnosed with at 2 years old because at the time ADHD in women wasn't known. Research in that only became around in 2017, so me understanding that only hit at that point. But I've always had hyperactivity, which was a girl with ADHD essentially. So I've always been a little bit of a rogue pinball in a pinball machine. It's just darting here, there and everywhere. And I've always been like that and I've always needed to keep myself busy, which is why I thrived in the creatives during school. But I think it's quite important when you've got somebody in your team that's got neurodivergence, that you're kind of giving them the options to have that free flowing diary and not setting them and making them stick to a schedule because it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work for us and we very quickly get bored and that's where retention starts to go and people end up leaving their jobs like I've done many times and, and how does.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: It impact you day to day?
[00:05:50] Speaker B: So some days are great, some days, like I said before, I can get four days worth of, three days worth of work done in four hours, which is a great benefit. It also allows me to really just sit down and just drill in on what I need to do. But the, the detriment to that is obviously then the burnout that comes with it because we have the hyper fixation that comes into play. And if we really enjoy that, then that hyper fixation kind of takes over which then leads to burnout. So you're constantly on this roller coaster of emotion and feeling tired or feeling really energized and that can be quite a pushback. But generally day to day, I mean, I'm quite routined now, but I had to learn that. But without the routine, my life was absolute chaos. You wouldn't know where I would be from hour to hour or minute to minute, even at one point in my life. So holding down a 9 to 5 job can be sometimes really tricky. I'm very, very lucky that the industry that I work in allows me to be flexible, allows me to actually leave my desk and go in to meet a person for a meeting or go to do a networking event and stuff like that. So I have that flexibility in my day to kind of allow me to manage that. But that's come from years of failure and just sitting behind a computer hoping that it works.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: And I guess, look, there's. We've all learned and I'm sure by the end of this podcast we're going to even learn loads more. But we've learned a lot more about it in, in more recent years and it's talked about a lot more. But I guess there is outdated stereotypes and real kind of common misconceptions that people have talked to, talk to us about that you know what drives you wild and you know that you want to scream sometimes and go, that's not it.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: The phrase that ADHD isn't real. Everyone gets distracted sometimes. Everyone does get distracted occasionally. Agreed. But ADHD involves persistent impairing symptoms that interfere with daily functioning, relationships, work and or school, depending on where you are in your journey.
So to say that everybody has it or that it isn't real can be quite offensive to someone that actually lives with that chemical wire up day to day and is performing differently to the average human.
Another one that I get a lot is people with ADHD just need to try harder. And there's various different types of adhd. You've got an inattentive side and you've got the hyperactive side. I'm the hyperactive side. But you've also got the inattentive. And then you've got the combination of the two. Those with inattentive can come across as to people without ADHD with lack of understanding as maybe quite lazy or lack of willpower. And that isn't the case. It's related to a difference in brain structures and functions, especially in areas related to executive function, motivation and reward. So if these people aren't getting the stimulation that they need, then unfortunately it does present in those ways. But it doesn't mean that they're being lazy. They just haven't been given the right out to the process, essentially.
Another thing that sometimes is said as well is ADHD only affects hyperactive little boys. That's not the case. ADHD affects all genders and all ages. It's not something that you grow out of. Girls and women often go undiagnosed because they present in a completely different way to boys. And they're more inattentive than hyperactive, generally speaking. But adults with adhd, the symptoms may shift during their process into their adolescence and adult life. So it's just being mindful of those things. And I think there are three common misconceptions that come across along with the growing out of adhd. Although while symptoms may improve as you get older, it's something that never goes away. It's a difference in chemical wire up in your brain. And unfortunately you can't change the wire up of that.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: So let me kind of think then that obviously you've become, you know, I guess really passionate about making sure people understand and to try and get rid of the misconceptions. But let's kind of think about it on a practical level, like when you were going for roles early in your career to, let's say roles later in your career, or how you would talk about it with your manager. Do you. Did. Did you disclose it at interview? Did you disclose it at application stage? When, when do you kind of bring it into conversation? Or did you, going back at earlier points in those 20 years, didn't ever talk about it at all?
[00:10:02] Speaker B: I never disclosed I had ADHD until I started working for Mike. Okay. And that was last. Not last year, the year before I started with that company. So that's 30 years of, well, 28 years of having a diagnosis and never speaking about it.
[00:10:18] Speaker A: And why was that then? Why. Why did you choose not to?
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Because of the stigma against ADHD at the time.
You can be perceived. I know for a fact that I was. I've been let go from a job from discussing me going through my diagnosis because at the time I was going through the transition of hyperactivity into formerly adhd. And I mentioned it once and then got hit with a redundancy not long after that. So it kind of. That kind of stopped me from then ever speaking about it ever again. And I think it's the fear of failure or fear of judgment that you get because of the association and with it being not in a bad way, but a trendy thing to have now, maybe not one. The fear of actually being looked at as someone that genuinely has it, as somebody that's looking at trying to show both. And I don't mean that in offense to anybody that has kind of self diagnosed himself, but there was a period of time where everyone had ADHD or everybody had anxiety and it was all over social media. And as a result, those of us that actually live with it day to day kind of get a little bit buried because of fear of rejection. And it's that fear of rejection that is a massive part of ADHD as well.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: So let's kind of go back then to 20 years ago. I know you even mentioned when you were 2 years old, you know, there was discussions, but tell Our listeners about your diagnosis, how did it come about? Who instigated the conversations? I guess what were your feelings at the time? Were your parents clued up on it? Did they go on a kind of a big learning journey as well?
[00:11:46] Speaker B: So I've got very different parents.
My mum actually works in mental health and she's a wellbeing practitioner herself now. She has autism and adhd herself. It's 90% of the time passed down through genetics as well. If one of your parents has it, you're likely to have it in some form, whereas my dad is like the complete opposite. Unless it's written on paper, on a formal diagnosis, there's nothing wrong with you type of thing. So I had a bit of a push pull. But the benefit that I had from that is like my mum kind of went through the process of getting my hyperactivity diagnosis. My dad just embraced that. Everything that that was me was me. So I learned to live as Jade and I was very beneficial to have that from a young age. So I didn't ever really have to mask. So my childhood years I was able to thrive and just be and be expressive and do the do and be the rogue little child that everyone saw, but also was able to kind of hyper focus and stimulate from the education where I was kind of interested. So I was this absolute tearaway child but highly intellectual at the same time. And that come from my dad just driving me in the person in my personality and making me feel like it was acceptable to be who I was, regardless of a bit of paper, regardless of diagnosis. That was how I was brought up. So that's who I knew. I didn't actually know that I had this diagnosis until I was 24 years old when I was going through the motions of really hitting peaks and troughs and kind of going down the bad route that a lot of people with neurodivergency go through, which is recreational alcohol, drug use, that sort of thing. And you end up getting wrapped up into that kind of addiction. Well, because you're chasing that dopamine and stimulation.
And I recognized very quickly that I was going down a path of drinking quite excessively. And I reached out to my mum for some help and at that point she said to me, I've been waiting for this call for 20 years. And she put me in contact with a therapist who I paid for privately to go through cognitive analytical therapy, which is absolutely incredible. And that's what kind of helped me learn what my brain looked like. He also was a neurodivergent specialist and highlighted to me at the time of going through that journey that my diagnosis of hyperactivity would now be known as adhd. He then went through the Rector School with me. I took it to my doctor, I gave the doctor the form and they told me that they were upgrading my diagnosis from hyperactivity to adhd. At which point I was like, I'm not sure if it's an upgrade, but I'll take it.
[00:14:08] Speaker A: I was going to say there's other upgrades like, you know, airplane travel, things like that is what I was thinking. That are a good thing.
Yeah.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: But maybe not so much that. But then actually, when I look back at that, I think what the GP was trying to do at the time was maybe give it, like, put it in a positive light, rather than making me feel like it was something completely new. And actually all it did was gave me a list of personality traits on a bit of paper which highlighted who I was. So for me, it gave me confirmation. It also allowed me to start understanding myself. And if I'm being honest, if the COVID period didn't hit, I probably wouldn't have embraced all of that and I probably wouldn't have accepted that part of me and I wouldn't have come out of there thinking that I was in a position to start opening up. It did take a couple of years post Covid for me to start telling my employers etc that I had adhd. But luckily when I did start at homebox, I was given a safe space by my managers and an opportunity to actually start sharing it on my social platforms, which is something I never would have even done on my personal network, let alone my professional network, but it's led me to here. So I'm really grateful for that journey and really having the support from my mum. I still remember taking that diagnosis to my dad and saying, told you there was something wrong with me. And he said, it's on a bit of paper. Yeah, yeah. And he said to me, look at what's on that bit of paper. Is there anything wrong with you or is that just telling you who you are?
And that really sat with me and it was, it was just highlighting my responses to things which make me who I am. So that was my, my diagnosis journey.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: And I guess, you know, you talk about that journey, which. Thank you for sharing it with us, but I guess there has been some high, high there and some really low points through that journey.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I got hit with a redundancy due to being the neurodivergent one on the team. And it was. I was told that it was because of my performance. Although I was the higher performer on the team and was working towards team leader, I then did get a payout from that company for unfair dismissal. So it was starting to kind of then understand what my. Where my. My position is. And don't get me wrong, there are some terrible things that come with that which need to change and they are changing. But unfortunately there is still that stigma and there's still that category of people that still work in the way that we did in the 80s and aren't willing to kind of change that. So they're still breaking down the barrier and there's still a lot of work that needs to be done. But the highs and the lows of kind of being able to share them. I remember sharing really early on in my days of sharing on social media, a picture of me in absolute meltdown, and there was no rhyme or reason why. But it hit a Friday and I had nothing planned for the weekend. And I just went, you know what? I'm just going to video it. Because this is the raw, real stuff that comes with adhd. Because, yeah, it's great and it's all shiny. Look at that shiny thing over there. And it's all wonderful. And we can do all of these things and we have this superpower, but it is also this massive detriment that comes with this looming doom that. That crawls over, that sits heavy on your shoulder sometimes. So there are the highs and there are the lows, but I guess it's just the same for anyone in life. You're going to. You just kind of have to ride the roller coaster to get to where you want it to be.
[00:17:17] Speaker A: And I guess at times you really overthink things all the time.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. All the time. I mean, I could have a dream, a dream at night about my partner running away with a milkman or something, and I speak to him for a week, same as if. Like, it's language. That's that you get on a. I'll get a message from my manager saying, yo, can you jump on a call? And I'll think I'm going to get sacked. So automatically your brain just goes like a million miles an hour and you come up with the worst possible solution to what the actual output was in the first place.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah, there is the saying, isn't there, that I think we worry about things that haven't happened more than the things that ever have. And a lot of those things never happen. And I guess that's just you extreme, you know that that happens all the time and that's really tiring, isn't it?
[00:18:07] Speaker B: It is, yeah. I mean, the way I explain my brain to people that don't understand what ADHD is, is imagine you've got an eight year old laptop and you've got your Internet browser open and you've got 60 tabs open and everything you're trying to click through each one and every single one of them's buffering and not one single one of them will load at any point. That's my brain all the time. So it's like one browser tabs there before it's loaded. It's already onto the next thing, onto the next, onto the next, onto the next. So it can be quite tiring. Yeah. And completely, completely like debilitating sometimes. And that's where the burnout kind of comes from. It's because of internalizing in your head, not because of physical burnout, it's mental burnout. And once you hit that mental state of burnout, it's really difficult to come out of there, which is why we tend to sleep a lot.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to say like you, you kind of don't ever get a break and you want to escape it at times, I would imagine.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: I've managed to find coping strategies for myself so I do music away from work, so that keeps me busy. I dj. I also run a music label and an event round with my partner, so that keeps me busy. I do a radio show twice a month. So there's a lot of stuff within music that I found is my kind of therapy. Because I'm unmedicated, I choose not to take the medication because I've lived so long without it. But that obviously comes with then learning how to manage those peaks and troughs and the highs and lows. And when I do feel a real high state of burnout, my coping mechanism is sleep because it's the only way you can switch brain off. Yeah.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Now, as we've kind of spoken about it's neurodiversity is more understood now than it was before and hopefully that is going to continue to get better and better and better so that employers, which is what I'm going to talk about next, can help their employees and understand them, but there's still obviously a long way to go. So can you help us understand and provide your thoughts really on how employers, particularly property sector, because that's where we're all in. What do we need to do? How do we need to adapt workplaces to ensure they Feel inclusive to feel that you can, you can really perform because there are big benefits here as well for, for the employer and the companies that you work for, but also to cater for, you know, colleagues, customers, everyone, everyone involved.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Yep. So in terms of how employees in housing can be sort of more inclusive for people with ADHD specifically is being more flexible and open. So ADHD isn't a one size fits all. Everyone has a different type of ADHD and will present in a different way. So flexibility with work styles, communication methods and deadlines can make a massive difference.
Giving clear expectations as well. So giving clear and concise instructions and I mean literally be straight to the point, whether it's good or bad, just tell them how it is. Don't use vague language. It really helps when tasks are broken down into step by step, simple instructions as well. So if you've got somebody on your team that maybe isn't performing and it looks like they're kind of freezing in the moment they're given an instruction, it may be because, well, it hasn't been broken down easy enough for them to kind of process or it's not concise enough and it's not to the point enough for them to kind of break it down.
Another thing to do is open plan. Offices can be quite overwhelming. So offering a quiet space or remote work can help with focus. So I appreciate in some roles you do need to be in the office, but even just giving them maybe one or two days a week from home, or just giving them a little separate area where they can just go and separate themselves from the overwhelm and the bright lights and all the buzzing noise and everything else. Because what people don't understand is somebody with adhd, they hear everything, they see everything, and that's what kind of sets them into that overwhelm. So just having that in the back of your mind.
For those that are working in the office that don't have the option to work remotely, mentoring and check ins is something that I found really helps. Informal check ins or access to a supportive buddy system really helps keeping people on track without feeling micromanaged. So with myself working from home, I actually buddy up with somebody in a completely different business and we sit on the phone for two hours a week and we just work and we do our admin together and it just have. Just having that person there just next to you without pressure or asking questions or feeling like they're sitting over your shoulder can sometimes be really helpful.
And I think another key thing as well, especially in this housing market, is normalising neurodiversity training staff about ADHD and other neurodivergences reduces the stigma and helps build a supportive culture. Now, we're not expecting everybody to be an ADHD neurodiversity expert, but even just asking someone like myself to jump on a 30 minute webinar with your team and just giving them a bit of insight to what neurodivergence look like and what ADHD specifically is, then that can already just open up a load of doors for people and make people feel that they're included within the neurotypical team.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: And have you come across any training or like, useful information or, you know, videos to watch or anything for employers to learn more?
[00:23:08] Speaker B: If I'm being honest, I've not looked for stuff like that before because I've just gone in and kind of educated where I've, I felt I've, it's necessary and I've used my personal experience, but I'm, I'm, I should imagine there is a lot of stuff out there. I'm more than happy to go away and have a look for you and send it over.
And if people have any questions on that, feel free to drop me a message on LinkedIn or whatever and I'm happy to come back and find that information. But I think generally the reason that there is so much stigma and lack of understanding is because of the lack of information that there is out there about this and how, more, more importantly, how businesses can work with people with neurodiversity. And there really isn't many studies on that at all.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: And that's kind of what I'm saying because, you know, I guess mental health training, using that as an example. If I googled mental health training for employers, I am in, I've got a whole choice, you know, and I know my head of people for CENA was looking the other day to get us some new training for our business. She's, she's got multiple options, you know, very local to, to work, to our office, etc, that she can kind of get her hands on. Menopause training as an example is also becoming more popular and it's kind of becoming more, you know, a thing that we seem to be able to, to get access to easier where, you know, training for, you know, the types of conditions that you have spoken about. I, I haven't been able to come across it and I'm sure that you may be. We need to work a bit harder to find it. But yeah, if you can find anything, that would be brilliant because we can Share that with our listeners. And like I said, look, there's got to be benefits here for employers and to have, I mean a, it's brilliant to have a diverse workforce anyway, right? Because actually if you had everybody the same, that's, that's never going to work and you're only going to be as, as good as whoever those types of people are. Yeah, but how would you describe it? Why is it actually brilliant for an employer to employ somebody with ADHD or neurodiversity?
What are they going to get in return?
[00:25:06] Speaker B: So you'll find that people with neurodiversity and adhd, more importantly, they generally will be your creatives in the business or your marketing team, the people that are coming up with your new ideas and bringing you into the digital age of 2025. They're also the people that are going to be working themselves into a project and hyper focusing into that project in a way that nobody else will. So that project that you're wanting to achieve, if that person has a neurodivergence, I can guarantee that that project will come to fruition much quicker and the output will be there a lot quicker. So you'll actually be able to get the results a lot quicker as well.
There's obviously detriments to employing somebody with neurodivergence, but the benefits are untold because you're essentially getting three people's work done through one person. So you're reducing your numbers in terms of your staffing. You'll also find that they don't like to stick to one role. So you can usually have somebody that works in sales and marketing at the same time. So you're crossing two different divisions there. And you'll also find as well that they are the people that will stand up in a meeting and talk, talk back. Essentially, if you're trying to run ideas for a business, they'll be the ones that stand up and say, actually no, I don't think that's a good idea and allow you to actually move the business forward. So in terms of the benefits of having somebody where you've got somebody that's an extremely fast worker, extremely creative and passionate and loyal as well, because they don't like change and because of that they will stick with you forever and a day.
[00:26:30] Speaker A: Excellent. Would you describe yourself as really task focused?
[00:26:35] Speaker B: No.
[00:26:36] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:36] Speaker B: If I'm being honest, I don't work off of lists. I will arrange my day to have like two hour segments in it so that I'm prompted to do things because I get very easily Distracted. And if I'm really into something like writing a blog or something like that, and then I've got to go and pick up the phones, I need to be triggered to stop what I'm doing. Otherwise I will just continue with that for the entire day. My whole day of prospecting has just gone out the window. So me being task focused, but that is generally because of my hyperactivity side of things. I'm. I literally just like I say, I'm a pinball in a pinball machine, just pinging all over the place and that, that's what works for me. And I really difficult to sit and actually just do one thing at a time. So my day will be my Internet browser is usually the same as my brain with the multiple tabs and different things going on. And I remember an old manager looking at me once and being like, I don't know how you get to 5:00 and have everything done. Because I could not work in the way that you do. But I get the stuff done. So it wasn't ever a problem that I wasn't following formality. It was just, I don't understand how you do that because one minute you're doing this and then you're doing that and then you're doing that. So for me, a to do list or task list is just not happening. I will plan my day how I see fit in the morning. But other people with ADHD are very list focused. One of my best friends, she's ADHD autistic. She, and she is very much list orientated. Has to write a list to get anything done. Is very successful in what she does is she's data analyst but will write a to do list when she's having her house renovated room by room, so she knows what needs to be done. Whereas me, I'll walk in and be like, that needs to be done, that needs to be done, that needs to be done. And then it's just like, whatever happens first, happens first.
[00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So your brain is working really hard all the time. I'm definitely a list person. I write things on a list. Even if I've done it just to tick it off, I'm one of those people. It was like quite sad probably.
So I guess if there are employers listening to this, and I hope there are, hope there are. Or people that, you know, have the option to recruit people or recommend people or promote people within, within their teams, I guess some employers could be scared by it, you know, either not understanding, you know, ADHD or, or anything else or Worrying that, you know, you might have more time off sick or that, you know, there's. There's really, unless they can understand it, there's kind of special kind of conditions or ways to kind of treat you. What would be the message back to them to give them the confidence to actually embrace it?
[00:29:09] Speaker B: See, I'm a little bit backwards. I would actually say you're right to have the fears. But also the flip of that is if you didn't know that person had a neurodivergent, would you even be asking those questions? And if that's a no, then why are you asking the questions? Just because they have a label on their head and this is where the stigma needs to be broken because you're treating that person differently from the offset to somebody that is neurotypical purely based on the fact that they have ADHD or they have autism or they have some form of neurodivergence. All you have to do when you're working with somebody like that is, well, they'll be open and honest with you. And like I mentioned before, offering somebody flexible working. The only time that people with neurodivergence will take time off sick is if they hit burnout. And they only hit burnout because of routine or feeling pressured or micromanaged or having to go into an office five days a week and the social interaction causes burnout. So having that flexibility to give them the option to work from home and things like that, that eliminates those risks of hiring somebody with a neurodivergence, but they're no different risk to hiring somebody normal.
[00:30:13] Speaker A: And finally, before I get to my last question, how. What would you say to somebody that is listening to this thinking, you know, that that's me, but I've never had the confidence to tell my employer or sometimes my friends or my partner or whatever it is in terms of what has been the benefits to you in sharing it? Because I imagine your confidence has grown over time as you. As you've spoken about it more.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Yeah, so I. That's obviously come from having great managers that have supported me and allowed me to just talk freely with no judgment and actually used me as a kind of case study to understand what it's like to work with someone and manage somebody with a neurodivergence because they've not done so before.
But what comes with that is obviously as we, as the person that lives with the condition, we have to let go of the fear of judgment and fear of rejection. And that's a massive part of ADHD is the Fear of rejection and being able to let go of that is really challenging. But the minute that you do and you start opening up, and I mean opening up to the people that really matter first. So the first person I spoke to was my mum. My dad was the last person I told about my diagnosis purely because of how he viewed things. And I wanted that bit of paper to take to him and say, look, dad, this is what I've got, because that's the person that he is. But if you don't surround yourself with people that actually really care about you, that's the only time that you should really be worried about opening up about your diagnosis to your friends and family. What comes off the back of them then giving you support is the confidence to then open up to your work. And realistically, in this day and age, your work should be sitting with you and working with you on how they can support you through the transition, because that person is also going through a massive understanding. That person could be 25, that person could be 46, and they're just understanding about themselves. Imagine having 46 years of your life not knowing that you have something and then being told that you have it. That's your whole life changes at that point. So not only are they going through that process, but you need to just trust that your employees are going to be there to support you. And if they're not, not, don't be afraid to walk away.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: If any of our employees listening, I'd love to talk to you about it. You would, you would be embraced. I can assure you.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: It's losing the fear that they. That. And that's it.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: That's the thing.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: It's losing the fear. And I mean, I'm guilty of it. I've done so many years of, of not telling people because of fear of rejection or fear of judgment. And actually, why does it, why does it matter? It really. It shouldn't matter. It's part and parcel of who you are. You're already there. They already like you, otherwise you wouldn't. Shouldn't be there.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I just imagine, you know, thinking back over, over the years, I don't, I don't mean to have my career, but, but, but anybody's. Think of how many people who have just been in the wrong role and therefore there hasn't been a solution found to find them the right hole. I guess in an organization, it's just been that they don't fit in that particular hole that they're in where actually if there was way more understanding about it, it I'm sure that there could be more informed decisions and actually way more solutions for people which is going to be great for business and, and the employee. And like you said, you know, then you've got a friend, an employee for life, you know, or for a long time, you know, and that, that, that's got to be great.
Jade, I think it's, it's such a fascinating topic and I, you know, I think it's really wonderful how you've embraced ADHD and that you've come on here to talk about it and you talk about it in a really, really positive way, which is lovely.
But I'd love you to have the final word, I guess, in this conversation and share anything else that you would really like our listeners to know and remember.
[00:33:47] Speaker B: So for me, I think it's just if anyone's kind of going through their journey with me being the head of wellbeing for women in residential property, my inbox is open mail or female all the time for any support. Having gone through the journey myself, I can promise you it's not as scary as it seems.
Obviously at first it is completely life changing. You're having to learn about yourself. But the reality of things is nothing really changes. You just learn a bit more about you. And when you kind of become comfortable with that, everything else just falls in place around it. And as you can see, I mean, Heidi, you're CEO of a business. You're embracing neurodiversity. You want to work and understand how this works and how people can thrive in an organization with the conditions. And this is where we're at now in 2025, there are a lot of businesses that are doing the right things. And I think letting go of that fear is really, really tough. But just try because if you don't try, nothing changes. Then we're trying to break the stigma and trying to move forward. And if we don't all work together to do that, then we're still going to be how we were in 1985. And no one wants that.
[00:34:50] Speaker A: No. And you know, the amount of things that we learn along the way, you know, knowledge is power, isn't it? And you know, that knowledge allows us to change things. So hey, I'm up for anyone that can work in our organization and do three, three days working four hours. But way more than that. It's, it's actually about having different people.
And that's what makes that, that's what kind of makes it brilliant.
Jade, thank you so much. And for all of our regular listeners of let's Talk lets they will know that we ask every podcast guest for a funny story or anecdote.
Do you have one to share with us today?
[00:35:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was. This was about 10 years ago now, and I actually did park my driving lessons for a period of time, but I told my driving instructor that I needed to be told things like, ahead of. Ahead of time. So if it's coming up to a corner, don't tell me. As we get to the corner, I need to be told, like, a mile behind that we're coming up to a corner, you need to turn right. And he didn't. And he told me to turn right. And as I turned right, I decided that I was going to turn right while there was a car coming and decided to turn towards the car and ended up going into and taking out the entire front of a corner shaft.
[00:36:02] Speaker A: Oh, no.
[00:36:04] Speaker B: So I don't know how on earth I managed to get into a car after that, or I remember just getting out of the car and being like, I can't do this anymore. And he was like, are you all right? And I was like, I don't think I am. I'll just leave you to sort that out. And actually ran down the road to the seafront and hidden behind a wall on the beach for an hour.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: Oh, really? Oh, bless you. Did you have any brakes as well? You know, like, was it not one of those cars where he was?
[00:36:27] Speaker B: But it was a very quick, like.
Yeah, I don't think anyone had the time to think about that. But, yeah, I.
Yeah, that was a very, very, very interesting part of my life. And my. I remember actually going back to my driving instructor years later and him being like, are you ready to not drive into a corner shop now? So I don't know if I trust you in my car.
[00:36:49] Speaker A: I. I remember when I was learning to drive, actually, that my dad used to take me for, like, like out in my mum's little car, like, you know, to practice. I did have lessons as well. And then there was one time that my mum took me and I begged him and begged her and begged her to let me drive to wherever it is we were going. And she then said to me, oh, you need to turn. That was actually a right turn. But I didn't crash into a car or anything, but there was a ditch and I didn't turn enough right. So I was like, we just drove down the ditch and the car was there and this guy came, this really old man, he looked like, you know, like the granddad out of Only Fools and horses. Uncle Albert. That's what he looked like. And he came along on his bike and we were like, oh, can you help us? And he was like, yeah, yeah, just wait a minute. And he ran off and he came back with a camera and he just started taking pictures of us because he thought it was so funny. We were like, oh, my God. It was before mobile phones were, like, you know, carried all the time, and I still never forget that. And the car got pulled out the ditch. It didn't have a scratch on it. So there we go.
[00:37:50] Speaker B: Wow. Wow.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Jade, thank you so much for your time today.
We will make sure that when we post about the podcast, we'll include all of Jane's details for everybody. So if anybody has any questions or wants to reach out to her, as she said, I'm sure she will be more than happy to talk to you and help you for everybody. To ensure you never miss an episode of let's Talk, let's please follow us on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast and leave a review if you like what you hear. Thank you very much, Jade, and thank you all for listening. Let's Talk. Let's an original podcast from the Lettings Hub.
