Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Speaker A: Let's Talk lets, an original podcast from the Lettings Hub. Hello and welcome to the latest in our podcast series, lets talk.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Lets.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: Im Heidi, the CEO of the Lettings Hub and lets talk. Lets is our regular roundup of news and views on a whole range of subjects spanning the private rental sector. Today I am delighted to be joined by Tamsin Wheatcroft, who is a specialist recruiter within our specialist property industry. Tamsin is a true entrepreneur, having built a number of businesses from quite a young age. Thank you for joining me today. Please introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit about how the career originally started in recruitment.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Hi Heidi, thanks for having me. Really appreciate it. This is fun and something new.
I started in recruitment literally straight from doing business and finance and I walked into a recruitment agency and got a job as a recruiter. So I loved it right from the get go and then set up my own recruitment business. I think I was 21 and then I sold that out quite quickly within a few years. And then I went into property as a valuer and I, I absolutely loved being a valuer in sales. It was super busy. It was when the market was booming. And then I thought, how could I put those two things together that I'm passionate about? One was property and one was recruitment. So that was when property sector recruitment, I thought, that's it. That's ideal. And the market was absolutely crazy busy and it just seemed like the natural way forward. So, yeah, it was born and we started in 2000, so, yeah, okay, so.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: 2000, so quite a long time ago, that now.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it was a long time ago. And we did it until the property crash in 2008. Then I went into lettings and did eight years in lettings and then set back out again and went into property sector recruitment. So some of the clients we've been dealing with for like over 25 years, some of the people that I placed in work back in the day are now directors. So we recruit for them. So we've all aged together and it's really lovely. So a lot of the relationships are over a very long period of time. So we know the businesses really well.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: I suppose it must be nice then, following somebody's career path.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Absolutely.
There's something super exciting about placing someone at entry level in the industry at the beginning of their career because it is a really exciting career and I think once you have property in your blood, you never really want to come out of it. And, yeah, obviously over like 25 years, people progress from being a trainee lettings negotiated to owning their own lettings businesses and doing acquisitions. So it's fabulous.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: I definitely think it's quite an incestuous industry in that regard, isn't it? Once you're in, you kind of don't really leave in and therefore kind of people move around and there's a lot of people that know each other from different places along their whole journey through or lettings.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Everyone knows everyone. It's a really nice community and that's why it's nice. You know, I think it's the best sector to recruit within, you know?
[00:03:30] Speaker A: So if we kind of fast forward to now, like we've talked about, there's been some highs and lows in the industry over the years in terms of businesses booming and businesses kind of, you know, having to make some pretty sharp cuts pretty quickly.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: So let's kind of look at the recruitment market right now within obviously the property sector. What are you seeing? What, what is it like right now in 2024?
[00:03:50] Speaker B: The recruitment market has really changed since COVID We're all, we're dealing with totally different types of people that we were, say, 1015 years ago. Everyone seems to want this work life balance because people have done remote working. We've got hybrid working. And in the property sector in lettings, we expect people normally to be in the office Monday through to Saturday with a day off in loop, perhaps, but predominantly always sat at a desk. So the candidates have changed what they want. Candidates, you can see leaving the industry now because other companies are offering better work life balances.
So it's a much, much tougher market. We're working in a candidate shortage market, and the candidates expectations are much higher. The salaries have all got to come up to what they should be. Whereas years ago you'd be able to get away with a lower basic, things have changed. Now, to get the best candidates, it takes a lot longer, and you've got to be paying the best salaries and have not only that, but a really attractive culture, you know, and you've got to be getting the best talent. You've got to be making sure that you are offering the best overall package.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: So in terms of looking at somebody's package and what they want, that's obviously hugely important to them. And it's obviously a massive deciding factor, key in the their decision making process. But how important is that first interview? Because to me, obviously the candidate's got to work hard, but hasn't the employer got to work equally as hard or harder right now in terms of trying to impress them, give them a really positive experience to kind of want them to join so near enough. Sell the company. Sell themselves at every interview?
[00:05:38] Speaker B: Yes. The employer has got to super impress the candidate because that candidate is going to be going for three or four interviews, and they have literally, the client has got to woo that candidate and make them think this is the best company it's got. And also, it's the best career progression. It's not just about accepting a job, a dead end job, that is, I'm going in as a lettings negotiator or a market appraiser. It's got to be. There's got to be a really good career path and promotion. You know, we've got certain clients that only take in from the bottom and they promote from within. And what that means is every candidate that we placed in rises up through the ranks and they know that they're going to end up at a branch manager level.
They don't recruit externally for management. So that's really important. But that first interview and impressing the candidate is very, very important.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: And I guess you mentioned culture, but that's kind of what kind of sent me down that kind of path of questioning, really. I guess anybody can feel a culture of a business when they walk in the door. But what else kind of helps the candidate decide if that's the right fit for them in terms of some of the feedback that you get from candidates when they come back to you and said, you know, the career path might have been great and the package might have been great, but.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: But the person on front desk was really horrible.
You know, literally, it's that feeling when you walk into an office the first 30 seconds to a minute, so, so important. We tell candidates how to open the door, how to announce themselves. You know, I'd say, hi, it's Tamsin. I'm here to see Sophie or whoever. Where would you like me to sit? Where do you want me to stand? And then talking to the people in the office. How long have you been here? Paying them compliments about the window cards, the displays, trying to get to know them. You know, that five minutes whilst you're sat there waiting for the interview, can I see myself working with this team? You know, if someone's really off with you and cold, I don't want to work in that office. So it's the moment you walk into the office that first impression. Are they friendly? Even if they're super busy and they're all on headsets nowadays, but did they give you a little smile? Did they make you feel at home? Were they polite? Were they nice?
[00:07:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny, actually, because we still operate in a fairly big office. We do have remote workers and we have people that come in and out and we have people that work at all times of the day because we start very early in the morning. But I always say, if you ever see anybody sat in our reception, really, our reception is two chairs and a mini table.
Go and introduce yourself to them, offer them a drink, go and say hello. And right next to where they would come and sit, there's often our kind of big meeting room. So some of us are often sat in there and often I'll sit there and I'll see this poor person sit there. And then they get approached about ten times by ten different people going, hi, do you want anything? I can see them going on, but I would much rather that than just sat there and think, oh, my God. Because, you know, sometimes in an office, it can be quite quiet, can't it, in terms of the time of the day. Other times, everyone's talking on the phone. But it's interesting as well, is I will also form an impression of that candidate sat out there based on how they're behaving in those first few minutes. And often I'll send to the manager, oh, I really like this one. And they're like, how do you know that? Just because, you know, they're sat there, they're smiling, they're interested, engaging.
Yeah. So I was going to say to you, so I'm sat here, I'm looking at Tams and she's hugely glamorous, looking lovely in terms of how you present yourself at interview, not just what you look like. I don't mean that, but how important is it to present yourself?
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Well, oh, my goodness, 100%. It's super important. We, you know, we help people if they're returners to work, for example, mums, if I'm allowed to say that, if they've been out of work 15 years, they might say to me, what have I got to wear? So we'll literally go through what shoes to wear, that first impression and you entering the building and saying, hi, my name is. This is who I'm here to see. You're taking control of it and you're being as friendly and nice as you can and being super smart. You're representing the company, whether you're sat on front desk and you're an administrator or a receptionist, or you're going to be going out and doing the viewings, going to be first point of contact and represent the whole company. So looking the part and sounding the part and being polite, being nice and being genuinely interested, all of that is really important. But we do literally help everyone with, when they walk through the door, what to wear to shoes, not too high heels, not pumps, not track suits, right through to when they leave the interview and they say goodbye to the client and then have a little bit of chat ready for leaving the building, waving at other people and saying bye, I hope to see you soon. So all of it is really important. It's like I always say, you're like a show person from the second you walk in to the second you leave. Once you're out of the door, that's fine, but the whole time that you're in that business, you're giving them your best impression.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: In a company that I used to work at many years ago, kind of one of the places I started my career, we used to have a saying called power of one. And it was basically like if you were going to do anything, imagine it was the only one that you were going to do. So if you were going to try and win a customer, imagine if it was your only customer. So how would you start the day? You know, what, what would you wear? How much research would you do on them? What, what, what presentation would you prepare? Like, it was the only thing and, you know, and there was, you know, a million pound riding on it. If you won the client and, you know, you lost your house, if you didn't, like, do you know, like real extreme scenarios, but it really focuses your mind and I guess that's the kind of thing that's really what you're saying, isn't it, about a job interview? Just imagine it's the only one you've got to go in and make that absolute killer impression and, you know, first impressions and last impressions absolutely count.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, 100%. I agree. Yes.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: So if somebody's looking to kind of break into the property sector, yes. What advice would you give them?
[00:11:51] Speaker B: They need to make sure that their cv is absolutely tip top and that their I profile is right and it's geared towards every position that they're going for. So don't just upload something and say, you know, I'm looking to get into the property sector. I would be more specific. You know, I'm desperate to get into lettings.
And when you go for that interviewer entry level, you have to give someone a tangible reason. So it's not just because I've watched Sarah Beanie on tv. Yeah, exactly. That you've got, say, you know, my aunt's mortgage advisor or my uncle works as a market appraiser and you've got to make it believable. My best friend works out and name a specific estate agent. So they've got to have real reasons. They can't just say, oh, I think it looks fabulous and I love houses and I go on, right, move. That's not good enough. They've got to. The client has got to be able to believe them.
Getting into. They also, if they can, get work experience unpaid, whether it's doing viewings, answering the phone in an office, get anything on your cv that is property related and just show people that you're absolutely passionate about it. It isn't a whim, it's your absolute chosen career and that's all you're interested in. And then I always tell candidates, if we can't help them, which at certain times when the market's really busy, we do place a lot of trainees. When it gets more difficult and tighter, we don't place them.
Put a photo of yourself on your cv and then go and hand deliver it to all the estate agents in your local area. Walk into the door, say, hi, who's the manager? It's Tamsin. I'm looking for an entry level job and then leave the cv with your photon and they'll remember you. And people do actually get jobs from walking around estate agents. It's really old fashioned, but it works.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And there's less face to face now than ever there was before. So actually going in and making an impression actually does genuinely make an impression. It stands out.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: Yes. Yes, it does. It does. And also, it will only be one out of 100 youngsters or entry level people that will actually bother to do that. So it shows that they've got really good initiative. They're confident enough to hold a conversation. So there are lots of tick boxes.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: 100%. So, historically, we've obviously all been told that having kind of a good, strong cv is crucial in any job market.
For me, when we've recruited at the lettings hub, I've always kind of. Sometimes I won't look at them like. And, you know, because actually, I think. I always sometimes think, well, have they had help with it? Like, is it all true?
Etcetera? Like, actually, we're more interested in understanding the person. Like, you're explaining the passion. Why do they want to do it? What's their attitude? Are they smiling? Have they got the ability to do it? Obviously, that is really, really important, but it's not always about what experience they've had in the past. It's more about what could they bring to the business in the future.
How do you, I suppose, portray candidates to employers in a way where they see them for the person rather than just obviously what's written down on a piece of paper?
[00:15:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's so on the piece of paper, on their cv, in their profile, we will give them that paragraph of why they're so desperate to get into the property sector and make it really crystal clear so that, you know, when they read the CV, literally within 30 seconds or a minute, they know exactly why this candidate wants to get in there. But also another thing that we do do is, like, little videos. So I will say to a candidate, do me a 1 minute video of why you want to get into the industry, and also, secondly, why you want to work for my clients. So you need to be giving, you know, maybe five reasons of why you want to join them, because they're market leaders, because they've won loads of awards.
So literally, I'll get a little video on WhatsApp and then I'll whiz that over to the client so they can see them, hear them, you know, and have a good look at them. So that speeds the interview process up. Literally, once we've interviewed a candidate, I will know whether it's, they're good or not. And the relationship that we've got with our clients, if I say, look, I've seen Zoe, she's absolutely fabulous. She's got get up and go, she's your girl. They will say, let's book her in for an interview without seeing the CV. They'll literally just say, oh, get them in. You know, as soon as you've got a really super candidate, we'll get them an interview just on the say so that they're great and they've got what it takes.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, I think as well, with like, AI becoming more of a thing, it becomes easier, doesn't it, to create a cv even if you haven't put it together yourself. In the olden days, as it were, you used to have to sit, you check your spellings, you know, ten times over. It kind of feels kind of everything's moved on. And we, for example, run recruitment nights. And instead of kind of holding just an interview, we say, you know, we invite loads of candidates in all the same time. And we say, look, we're going to present to you, you've got to do nothing. And at the end of that, the evening, you can decide whether you really still want to continue with your application to kind of come and work with us and we'll book you in for your interview there. And then you can either do it that night or we can kind of call you back and we tell them all about the business, the journey that we've been on, the role. You know, culturally we try and portray as much as we can in words about the business, but hopefully they kind of pick it up. But what that does, it kind of gives them the confidence that it is their choice too in terms of who they want to join. But I could near enough from spending, you know, half an hour with people pretty much work out who are the types of people that we want to take on past that kind of process?
Do you see recruitment being done in different ways now? Not just the traditional interview.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: I mean, some of the bigger clients will hold like open days and invite lots of people, you know, when they're doing massive recruitment drives. So some of the corporates will invite people in and like you. I mean, that is a fabulous way because you can have people watching them on the outside as well and think how they're engaging. You'll know how they're engaging, but you can have other people watching them as well and seeing how nice they are and how they talk and things like that. I mean, the majority of ours is very straightforward. It's telephone, Microsoft Teams and then in person for the kind of second interview. So it is still very traditional. But I do love the different, you know, if you're recruiting on a bigger, on a bigger scale to get people in and tell them about the culture and the business, I think that's absolutely fabulous. Our clients tend to be on the traditional route, Microsoft Teams and then second interview in person.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I understand.
I would advocate it from anyone though, any kind of business size because even if we've got a couple of roles, we'll typically do it because we can then work out which people might want to join us. The other big advantage that I found by doing it is, and I think about the last recruitment I was at because I still like attending them, actually. And I like to present the business often myself because, you know, I'm proud to talk about it and, you know, want to kind of sell it to people as they join is you sit there with people afterwards and they will open up to you, you know. And this one lady said to me, oh, I'm looking for a job because I've been fired. And I was like, okay, yeah, talk to me. What happened? And she said, well, I had this period of absence. This period of absence. This period of absence. And it went on and she said, so, you know, I just want to know that if I kind of put my cv into you and I go through the process, that if that all happened here, you know, I wouldn't be fired. And I said, well, I'm really sorry, but you would like, you know, it's not. This is no different. Let me tell you why, though, why an employer might think like that. And actually, if you can then tell me how you could manage your absence and what's changed, then absolutely, I'll give you an interview. Let's talk. Anyway, she went away and then she came back and she said, right, well, I think I can do part time, not full time. That will kind of help. And actually, I've gone and got help with this, that and the other, and we employed her. She's still a fantastic employee right now.
And I think that people are more. If you can make people feel relaxed, they're more likely to, whatever it is, they're trying not to tell you.
And that's why that type of process has worked hugely for us in the past. But you mentioned video back then as well. And for anyone that wants to get a bit of inspiration on how to use video and camera, Tamsin's fantastic. You do a lot on LinkedIn with video and Instagram. Is it like, what sort of social platforms do you use? And tell us how you use it.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: Okay, we use Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
I think our best following is probably on Facebook and then LinkedIn and then Instagram. We tend to share our jobs, but also our bugbears and inspirational things, how to get into agency. So we share that across all three platforms. And it just makes people, well, they buy into you and they trust you and they know you. And then when they are looking for a job or they're looking for a candidate, will probably more than likely, in our geographical patch, will be the go to. So it increases our awareness out there. But also, we're constantly helping candidates with ideas, you know, how to make your cv stand out.
We're trying to help clients, make them more attractive. So. And, you know, constantly there are people that are messaging across LinkedIn over the weekends, on Christmas Day, it doesn't matter when it is. Facebook is really good on a local level. And then we reshare to lots of different groups locally. So if we do a video on Facebook, we'll then reshare it to, say, 15 or 20 groups, so it'll increase where it's landing.
And Instagram, they're all, it's just candidates being able to see you all the time and every opportunity. So all the jobs that we get, we put social media tickets out and they'll say, where's that sales progressive roll at 45k. Where's that? You know, and it's just literally from constantly doing it, you've just got to be on it.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I suppose it's, you know, most of us, I'm not going to say all of us, but most of us sit on some social channel or another and flick through of an evening or, you know, when. When we're bored or on the train or whatever it might be. And rather than looking on, you know, job boards, actually, you're kind of taking the jobs to them when they might not even be looking.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, it is. It's just constantly reminding them what's becoming available and it's changing on a daily and a weekly basis. It's always changing. There's always new jobs in every, you know, every day there's something new in. So you've got to keep, you know, you've got to keep going and sharing. Sharing the news.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: It's actually got me thinking, actually, that if they know who they're coming in to meet, you know, at interview, like you said, it kind of instantly puts the face to a name and a job advert probably makes it stand out naturally. We should be able to sell the job that way, couldn't we? In a couple of minute video, maybe. We'll do that. We'll let you know how it goes.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Yeah, do it on LinkedIn and I'll reshare it.
Also on LinkedIn and Facebook. There's lots of estate agency, different groups as well, and women in estate agency. There's lots of different places that you can share jobs to.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: So let's talk about women in property, women in lettings, women in estate agency, because again, actually, it has become a bit of a theme over some of the pods that we've recorded recently. Have you seen a shift? Have you seen a change?
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. I mean, there are lots more. There are lots more women in it. What am I, 50? And so I was in it when I was in my early twenties. So there's a lot more women in management.
I think in some traditional agencies that there is still. It's very, you know, it is a bit of an old boys club. It is especially in, as I say, top end of the market, rural or, you know, it just is. There's a lot. There's a lot of guys still at the top, but in general, agency, it's much more healthy. There's a much better split. But there is definitely still that old kind of old boys club in some estate agents and letting agents, what would.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: You say are kind of some of the biggest mistakes maybe that people make? Obviously, you've kind of given loads of tips already, which has been brilliant on first impressions, how you leave all of that, how you present yourself. But what about in the actual interview? What are some of the common mistakes that people make? When you get feedback from employers and they say, oh, it was great until.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, the worst thing you can ever do is turn up late to an interview. Imagine if you're an accompanied viewer or whatever, and you can't even get the time right. That's the worst thing. Wearing inappropriate clothes.
I mean, and also reason for leaving. You've got to be honest.
Normally we will have got the real reasons why everyone leaves each job, but if you don't tell the truth and you get caught out for a reason for leaving or there's gaps in employment, or you start saying bad things about your employer while you've left or sickness, any. Anything, that they're all red flags, you know, that are just bad, or, you know, you might say, I really fell out with everyone in the office. It was a really horrible office, or just things that are a little bit negative will be a complete turn off for clients.
So, yeah, you just, you know, but really, we should have sifted out anyone. That's not going to be good for interview. But, yeah, you've got to be honest in an interview and you, you know, you've just got to tell the truth. And if there's a reason, that's a real reason why you've left a job, even if it isn't good, it's better to be honest and tell them because they're going to pick the phone up and do a reference anyway.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, one of the first things we do is we look across social media as an example.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: And if somebody has borne out with their employer, sometimes they will have plastered it everywhere, having a moan and a rant. And actually it's seen anyway, so you can't really change the past of social media, can you? So you have to be a bit careful.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And also inappropriate behavior on social media. You know, you can't have any of that because, like you say, it's the first thing we do. As when we're looking at candidates, it's Facebook and LinkedIn. We're looking at their history, what they're doing, whether they're out partying all weekend. Are they going to be the right type of person for the company?
Yeah, you're absolutely right. On social media. It's brilliant.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: Yeah, it is.
I remember once when one of our team members, and he's still employed, so I can say it, but he had a party in our office and he posted it all on social media. And I was just like, I'm not going to say his name, but I was just like, all the things to do, like, yeah, you know, anyway, just people that he was working with, you know, turn the lights off, put a disco ball up and, you know, having the time of his life. Anyway, what about some standout things people have done that have really impressed you or employers when they've gone above and beyond to really try and secure their dream role?
[00:27:35] Speaker B: I mean, some people will put together a presentation why you should employ me, doing lots and lots of research, so that you can not only ask them questions. So I say take in really old fashioned, take in your magic book, get all your questions on one side, then all your compliments on the other. Check out meet the team. You know, you've got to be super knowledgeable. Also bringing in, you know, different achievements if you're from the industry, making sure you get those in, you know, giving examples of where you've gone above and beyond, when you've worked really hard, where you've gone and done viewings on a Sunday morning, but also talking about things that make you exceptional as a person. Anything, you know, that people have overcome adversity and bad things. You know, we've had candidates that have overcome amazing things. And to say that in interviews sometimes is really good. So also interests, if they've done anything really exciting or all the sports and Duke of Edinburgh and all kinds of things like that, or fundraising or anything that's exceptional that they're passionate about, if they can share that with the interviewer and they can realize what type of person they are, that they don't just do enough to get by, that they will go and do anything or they've helped organize events, anything at all. That's just nice. Make sure that you try and get that into conversation.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: Well, I start, and I think a lot of our team do now, I start every interview by saying, I'm just going to put aside career history or work or the job right now and I'm going to ask you all about you. And you literally see people panic.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: And you say, just tell me about you. Tell me friends, family interest, hobbies, girlfriends, boyfriends, husband, wives, kind of what I say, just tell me all about you in whatever order that you want.
And sometimes people feel really uncomfortable about that because they're there thinking that you're instantly going to ask them about the job and their career history and what they can bring to the role.
But the more you can kind of get them to talk about something that they feel really passionate about, actually, like all the things in their life, I feel that they relax so much quicker, open up, and then you learn really kind of niche things about each person that you kind of then can put two and two together or, you know, hopefully make four in terms of trying to work out whether they're right for the job, like, you know, to your point, trying to find out what makes that person special. Yeah, I suppose. And I just don't think enough people maybe do that with the candidates because definitely when I do the thing, well, I've never been asked this before. Like, really?
[00:30:14] Speaker B: I love that. I love that. I think that's brilliant. Yeah, really good.
[00:30:19] Speaker A: And it's so insightful because again, and the last time I was interviewing, I was interviewing for our sales team, and we ended up taking on three new candidates. They started this week, and I interviewed one guy, and he was really inspirational, but I could tell he was near enough holding something a little bit back. So I said, let's just go back. Let's just talk about you. Anyway, it turns out he's only 19, but he had left school quite young and had kind of, you know, actually had a fantastic survival story, if that's kind of the right way to describe him.
But he was so worried that being 19 and that kind of getting disclosed was going to have an adverse effect on him, where actually, in my eyes, that kind of boosted him straight up, in my opinion, of what he'd already achieved by that age. So I think people sometimes have preconceived, you know, perceptions of what they think an interviewer really wants.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: Definitely with age. When they're young, they're always a little bit worried because they think, oh, you think, I won't be able to do this job. But actually, we interview youngsters, like, you know, only 19 years old, but if they've got the right head on their shoulders, they're a 19 year old, but they're a lot more mature than a regular 19 year old. So it doesn't really matter if they've got the right attitude and core values. If their core values are good.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:42] Speaker A: And I guess the adverse, I guess, happens on if they're older, if someone's a bit older. They instantly have kind of the same fears about somebody not wanting them.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 100%. That's.
Well, it's very tough, isn't it? As long as an older person has got a young person's get up and go and drive and all the rest of it. But there's a lot of preconceived ideas of someone. That's why returners to work are always so worried about going for interviews.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: I posted actually, last week just about oasis. You know, they're going to be. I think they're going to be 52 and 58 by the time they go back on tour. If they can do it, anyone can do it.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: Right?
[00:32:24] Speaker A: That's what I.
[00:32:25] Speaker B: Brilliant. Yeah, I love that.
[00:32:29] Speaker A: Okay, any final kind of advice, tips, anything you want to tell anybody about recruitment that if somebody. And actually, do you know what I have actually seen on Facebook? Not Facebook, LinkedIn today, a couple of people that have recently been made redundant.
I've been made redundant in the past. It was about, God, about 20 years ago now, but it did feel like my world had ended.
[00:32:52] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: And I didn't realize I loved my job that much until it kind of felt that it wasn't my job anymore. And it can be, you know, usually great things come out of a redundancy situation, but I think for people that are in it, it can feel like the worst time.
So any tips for people in that situation or people looking for a change or any final tips that you just want to share with our listeners?
[00:33:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I would. You have to get out there, you have to network, and you have to make it happen for you. You can't wait.
When you're looking for a job, it is a full time job. And when you've been made redundant, you're going to be on a low ebb. So it's doubly as hard as someone in a job looking for a job.
If you're out of work, it's tough because you might be feeling a bit fed up, you know what I mean? So use LinkedIn, put that you're available for work, you know, on the little circle, and then literally register online. So read. Indeed, total jobs. Read. And indeed for property sector, read. Probably the best.
And you literally need to be applying for everything. It sounds a little bit awful, but it is actually a numbers game when you're applying for jobs. So if you're out of a job, you've literally got to apply for everything that you see all the time. And also make sure that you give all your information. Don't withhold anything. Get your address so people can see where you are geographically. Stick your age on. Don't worry about that. Put your dates on when you went to school, disclose everything and pop a picture of you on your cv so people can see you. It saves the recruiter's time.
And also, I would say, you know, if you're in a local area and you've got lots of agents on your doorstep, again, physically walk around. Hi, it's Tamsin. I've been made redundant. I'm immediately available. Here's my cv. I'll do anything, I don't mind, just take anything, get a job, and then you will get another job much more easily. You know, once you're in a job, take anything to get yourself working and then go again. And you know what? They might take you on as an accompanied viewer. And then they realize that you can do absolutely everything and within three months you've got another position. So you've got to do it 24/7 you've got to get out there and make it happen.
[00:35:15] Speaker A: And I know our podcasts are only audio, but the one thing that stands out to me when Tamsin is talking, everybody is. She's so passionate and smiling. And I think that that's kind of really key, isn't it? Like, for anybody, like nobody wants to. Nobody. We have a saying here where, you know, in our business, you know, we have to exceed expectations and do it cheerfully. Nobody wants to work with a miserable person, ever. Like how?
Well, I'm going to ask my question. It's just so important, isn't it? Like, you know, having someone that's got an upbeat attitude, they're passionate, they're smiling, they at least see the positive outlook on life. And I guess sometimes in a redundancy situation or if you don't have a job, that feels really tough, but you've kind of got to push yourself through that to get to the other side.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Maybe fake it to make it. You have got to put a smile on your face, you've got to get dolled up. Guys, girls, doesn't matter. Get super smart, get in there and go, Tada. Hi, it's me. This is what I'm here for. And you will stand out because most other people will not do that. So you are already at the top of the pile. So you literally. Yeah, smiley, get in there looking super smart. Nice shiny shoes, smart outfit, you know, whether it's a guy in a blazer and a shirt and nice chinos, just super smart because they're going to be checking you out as soon as you walk in.
[00:36:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And I agree. I think it would absolutely make somebody stand out. We interview many people over a year, and there isn't many people that walk in with all of those things that you've just said, you know, attitude, you know, talkative, you know, the minute they walk in the door.
And if somebody does walk in like that, I can absolutely assure you in our business, it would 100% stand out. And, you know, counts for a lot. Then, you know, when you're sat in front of somebody, you're already halfway there into thinking that, you know, I really want to employ them. Okay? So that has been brilliant. And I think you've given so many tips and tricks for anybody that's in the situation when they're looking for work now or they can listen to this in the future. But before you go to all of our regular listeners of let's talk, let's. They will know that we always ask every guest for a funny story or anecdote to share.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. Okay, well, I'm going to share one from lettings, not recruitment.
So when I was in let. When I was in lettings or, yeah, I was doing some viewings and it was in a vacant property, you know, repossessed property. So I went and I thought, oh my goodness, you know what? I'd been on viewings all morning. I thought, I'm absolutely desperate to go to the toilet, so I'll just nip upstairs before they arrive. It's all going to be okay. So I was like, oh, fantastic. There's toilet roll and everything. That's wonderful. So.
And then. And then I realized that all the services has been turned off just before everyone arrived. So that was. That's. Yeah, that was a bit embarrassing.
[00:38:09] Speaker A: But you know, there's always a good story in the lettings industry. 100%.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:38:17] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Tamsin, for joining us today. It's gone by in a flash, actually, we've been talking for ages, so. Wow. Thank you to all of our listeners of let's talk. Let's make sure you never miss an episode by following us on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast. Please leave us in reviews. And thank you so much for listening. Let's talk lets, an original podcast from the lettings hub.
