Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Speaker A: Let's Talk let's an original podcast from the Lettings Hub. Hello and welcome to the latest episode of our podcast, let's Talk. Let's. I'm Heidi, the CEO of the Lettings Hub, the tenant referencing business that got good at tech. Let's Talk Lets is our regular roundup of news and views on a whole range of subjects spanning the private rental sector. In our session today I'm delighted to be joined by Molly Chesney who is an independent marketing consultant who works with firms operating across the housing sector including providing marketing support and content for us here at the Lettings Hub which includes, amongst other things, working with my in house marketing team on the creation of these pods.
My relationship with Molly goes back pre hub as we've worked together for quite a while in the past. So welcome to this side of the podcast microphone Molly. Please introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit more about what you do for the Hub and more importantly, all about yourself.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Thanks Heidi. Yeah, it's great to be here on this side of the microphone for a change actually. So as you say, I'm Molly Chesney, an independent marketing consultant and it's actually now very close actually to the 8th anniversary of when I started out my own.
I've had the pleasure of working with the Lettings Hub for just over a year now, working with you and the marketing team on everything from kind of podcasts and info guides, letting agent comms and obviously also helped in the past with things like events and campaigns.
As well as having the pleasure of working with you guys, I also help other businesses in the housing sector to strengthen their marketing. Everything from strategic planning, content creation, team development and training.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Excellent. So you are a busy lady and from when you first started out in your career from a younger age, was it always marketing at the heart of what you wanted to do?
[00:02:06] Speaker B: No, no, not at all.
I actually kind of fell into marketing by accident actually. I used to work for what was one of the big five accountancy firms. It's not around anymore now but it was, it was the kind of like the, the KPMG type organization and yeah, I literally fell into it by being given as part of a PA role really looking after one of the partners who looked after marketing and fell under the marketing department then. So it was absolutely by accident but gosh, a long time ago now I think that was probably getting on for 30 years ago.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Oh wow. So Molly doesn't look that old by the way. I know you guys can't see but she doesn't and I'm sure Molly's passion probably will come across on this pod, but having worked with Mo, I think it probably was about 16, 15, 16 years ago, years ago when we first met and we worked together.
The one thing that's definitely stood out for me is Molly's passion. She's full of ideas and obviously we have borrowed a little bit of her time today to share some of this with everybody and we're going to go right back to basics before we do too much more. So we all know that an effective marketing strategy and activity would be the core, would be at the core of any successful business. But marketing is such a broad subject and even saying the word can kind of send some people into a bit of panic. So let's start at the basics. Can you describe for us, Molly, what marketing is?
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Yeah, of course, you're right, it is really broad. So essentially for me, marketing is about understanding and meeting customer needs in a way that really builds those lasting relationships. So it isn't about sales or advertising or social media. These are just tools. Real marketing involves kind of identifying the pain points that your audience, in this case maybe landlords and letting agents might face and then it's about positioning your services to be the solution to meet those needs. So defining what makes you unique. We talk about unique selling proposition, so finding what that is and communication, communicating it consistently. Take for example, if you are a letting agent, you specialise in high end properties or student accommodation, that should be part of your ongoing messaging. So landlords know what you offer. So of course social media and advertising and sales come as part of the tools of communicating that. But the whole kind of the broad marketing piece is, well, ok, what am I in the business of doing and how do I add unique value to my customers? And that's really where I see marketing is broader than maybe people see on a day to day basis.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: And there's a lot of buzzwords in marketing, isn't there? And there's a lot of like in word slang, I suppose, like SEO this or that's, I mean that's probably fairly common these days. But like, is it designed to trick people? And can you really be like a marketing generalist? Like if you've got your own letting agency and there's a few of you, let's say working in, you know, your office, you can't afford, you know, an in house full time marketing resource, can you be a generalist? You know, when do you look to outsource? When do you look to kind of learn some of the skills yourself? Like what would be any kind of tips and advice?
[00:05:31] Speaker B: I suppose, I suppose that's kind of an interesting question. Actually. The analogy I often use is marketing as is as broad as it. I think as a subject you wouldn't necessarily have the same person who can set up your cybersecurity as the person who would, you know, climb under the desk and put a network cable in. So you absolutely have to know when it's right to lean in to other people.
I'm sure that we'll kind of touch on this a little bit more as well. But some people are more adept at social media and they're kind of brilliant at it. Other people are better at the design side of things or natural communicators. And it's really for every organization to understand what their particular strengths are and absolutely find support for where they're not so strong.
So yeah, I would never expect anybody to be a generalist. And actually the way that I work personally for some of my clients, I outsource work. So I'm working on a website at the moment for an organization. I'm project managing that website. I'm not a web designer, I'm not a web developer. They know this. It's not, you know, it's not secret, you know, and I don't think you should expect a marketeer to walk through your door and be able to do everything.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: No, because it's really, it's actually a really wide, broad skill set, isn't it?
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: You know, and I know obviously bigger businesses will have a whole team, but not every single team member does the same thing. There's very kind of specialist, kind of sets of requirements I guess that a business would look for.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: So let's kind of move on then. So why is marketing so important? I guess for level we'll talk about letting agents, but it could be for anyone. So why is it so important for letting agents when it comes to winning or retaining or getting maximum value from their landlord clients? And what are the activities or considerations which should be maybe top of their list? What would be your top tips?
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Okay, so absolutely marketing is essential for attracting landlords, retaining them and then, you know, crucially maximizing the value of each of those relationships.
Effective marketing will build awareness of your agency strengths. If you, for example, highlight your local expertise or your market knowledge, then you're not just a face in the crowd, you're the go to expert.
I also think what's really important as well is to avoid competing or talking solely about price and instead demonstrate Value showing landlords the benefits of working with a really reliable team often totally outweighs the purely cost based consideration considerations. And we can talk about that in the kind of things that we've spoken about before in our marketing for the Lettings Hub. You know, a letting agent that makes mistakes can cost the landlords thousands of pounds in either lost rent or in legal fees if they've not done something properly. And so actually like picking the agent who you trust, who might be 1% more is going to be, you know, way more effective for the landlord. So definitely I say talk about the value rather than the price.
So that's kind of around kind of what your, the awareness of your strengths and communicating those. Then there's your acquisition strategy. You need to think about how landlords find agents. Is that through word of mouth or is it online research? Because your actions and your activity is going to be completely different based on how they're finding you. Or is it referrals? A good marketing strategy will target these acquisition channels and make sure that you are visible when and where your landlords are looking.
And kind of beyond attracting landlords, marketing is about delivering on your brand promise. Because you've kind of described your benefits, really the benefits of your agency over somebody else's. You have to continually kind of deliver on that. It's not just an acquisition a one time. Right now you're my landlord, I'm just going to kind of leave you and go and find somebody else. It's actually, it's got to be authentic throughout all of the conversations and communications that you have with that customer.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: Okay, so I guess in one way it's about building up trust with a person that isn't your customer over a period of time. It doesn't happen. It's not a one and done, is it? Most of the time?
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And there are many ways that you, that you can do that. And I think one of the key things is being that trusted source of knowledge, keeping abreast of what's happening in the market, you know, kind of looking around and making sure that you are remaining relevant and that you are not going to kind of let that landlord down because you've forgotten about what their kind of key pain points were that you identified in the first place. And so it's an ongoing thing. It's absolutely not a kind of, you know, done at the beginning. It's done, you know, consistently throughout the whole of your relationship with that customer.
[00:10:36] Speaker A: And that's the key point, isn't it doesn't you know, you don't sit back and go, that's it, we've won, we've won them. You know, it's the ongoing bit that actually is the harder bit and where most of the time and effort probably really needs to go in.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yep, yep. Consistency is key. Make sure that you show landlords that they can rely on you for the long haul is what I would kind of say.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think as well, marketing, it's hard, isn't it? Because we all like certain things, we're all drawn to certain things. But this isn't about you as an agent, you know, it's not about what you like, it's actually what's going to appeal most to your customers. And that's a barrier that I think maybe all of us who have got to make some decisions about marketing struggle to get over.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. No, it is, it's appealing to your customers, not to yourself. And actually to that point, I find sometimes that some people within marketing sometimes also pick the activities that they want to do based on what they want to deliver rather than what is necessary. What you want to have on your CV might be a TV advert, for example, but that doesn't mean that that is going to be an effective marketing activity for your organization. So it is around doing what is right for your business, your organization, not your own kind of personal aspirations.
Wish list, if you like.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And I suppose on that basis it comes back to the planning versus the delivery again, isn't it? It's doing the research, it's trying to find out. Actually guessing at the beginning of a campaign could be quite costly or not deliver a result is that, you know, are there any kind of other common mistakes that you kind of see that people make?
[00:12:21] Speaker B: So one of those mistakes, Heidi, that really frustrates me that property businesses make is actually cementing that relationship right at the start with your custom.
It should always be a two way relationship between a customer and the organization that they're buying from. Relationships are always better when they're two way. And so when I see, for example, friends on social media who are selling a house, they've gone, they've appointed an agent, hopefully they've appointed an agent, really selected them really carefully. They've picked them because they've got the right profile, that they're confident in the valuation, they're starting a relationship with an estate agent and it's, you know, it's going to be months and months in the making and the first thing that they do is they share their property on social media, sharing the Right move, listening listing, giving air to rightmove, giving air time to rightmove rather than to their own brand. Like that, for me is one of the biggest fundamental mistakes that we don't just kind of go, thank you so much for selecting me. Now this is how we're going to work together. And this is, you know, how I'm going to help you maximize the sale of your property. And, you know, and they just kind of let them walk out the door and, you know, share that listing on rightmove. It's just little things like that really, I think that are mistakes that are common, mistakes that could easily be changed, could. Could easily be fixed, really.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: And I guess that's one of the other myths, isn't it? Like, not all of marketing has to cost money. Using that exact example, if the link to the agent's website and the agent, you know, and the agent's branding was over that post, actually, it's likely that that person has friends, you know, colleagues, family, relationships with people in the local area, which actually people would recognize the brand.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Absolutely. And then of course, even just clicking on that listing, even if actually, let's be honest, you're just curious about what interiors your friend has. Like, you know, I wonder how they've decorated their bedroom. I wonder, you know, what their garden looks like. Even just by clicking on it to look at the pictures, which would probably happen in quite high numbers. Let's be honest with that nosiness factor. By sharing the rightmove listing, you're also giving rightmove the clicks rather than your own business website. The clicks. I mean, why would you give that away for nothing? Why would you hand that over to rightmove? So it's. That's kind of one mistake for me anyway. I think that's a real missed opportunity that a lot of agents make, in my opinion.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: And probably right now there's. There's a whole host of communication going on from agents to their landlord clients. Let's kind of talk about that. And that's mainly because there's so much. Obviously market change legislation next year is set to be the biggest change in 30 years, we're told at this point in time. So let's talk about those market changes. Yes, obviously our listeners will know that the Renters Rights Bill is coming.
What advice would you give anyone who are kind of contemplating their approach with this challenge?
[00:15:28] Speaker B: Yeah, of course, Heidi, the Renters Rights Bill is huge. We know it's, as you say, a really significant change on the horizon. But, but my Advice is to adapt to really kind of balanced and transparent approach. The Renters Rights bill is coming.
Agents and landlords are concerned about how the changes could impact their business models, their relationships. And one of the most important things we can do really is acknowledge that there are real challenges and fears and that it is going to bring change. It isn't a small regulatory tweak, it's a structural shift in the way that agents operate and it's going to need a really kind of proactive and thoughtful response. And actually I really recommend focusing on really clear, factual communications and offering solutions really I think a lot like we are doing at the Lettings hub. Become a really reliable source of information that provides detailed updates and guidance.
Explain not only what the changes are but how they'll affect you day to day, how you're going to build trust and reassure your landlords that you're actually prepared to help them navigate through that transition. Make sure that you've got the products that are going to help them and be honest with them. Don't paint a doom and gloom picture, but just be honest and have a really kind of well planned response. I think there's no kind of sugar coating or hiding it, but there is kind of saying, okay, look, you know, we both want, you know, if you like letting agent and landlord, it's in both of our interests to kind of navigate through this shift and make a success of it.
[00:17:05] Speaker A: Yeah, and it could be as simple, couldn't it? As like just talking to your landlords, chatting to them, not writing to them, not just sending them a blanket email, but just offering them the ability to chat it through would make a big difference.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. You know, that kind of, you know, building on the relationship that you've already had with them and showing them that you have their interests at heart and you can help them is going back to that point that we were saying about delivering on that brand promise and being that kind of local. Go to expert. If you shrink back into the shadows and don't say anything while this is happening, you're not proving that you know how you're going to help them once the bill is enabled.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I understand. Okay. Now over.
Well, over the last few seasons actually we've had a few POD guests on who have had some really kind of valuable advice for our agents. So I'm just thinking back. We had Megan, 18 on, she spoke about building social media channels for agents and the use of video especially. We then had Chris, Chris Watkins, who shared his insights on the importance of demonstrating about local Knowledge and sharing that and not having to write War and Peace. Just give people some really key facts to entice them in. So let's kind of consider what they've said. Are there any other really important or any useful advice that you would like to add and share?
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Yeah, certainly. And absolutely brilliant advice from both Megan and Chris. They were both excellent pods. And I guess to add to that, I would say the importance of defining and committing to your own brand. So, you know, we talk about brand, but it isn't just a logo or a website. It's the experience that you deliver for every client. So whether you're a big corporate agency or you're kind of more personable, hands on your brand should be consistent across all of your interactions.
Remember, of course, that it is your people that are, that are your brand. And how they interact with your clients is also a major part of your reputation as well. So once you've defined that, you need to make sure that you're consistently delivering that. So make sure that you include your brand values in your staff training and that people understand the way that you. The way that we talk, the way that we describe things, the way that we interact. Absolutely. Is key to maintaining your position, if you like.
And I think when it comes to competition, it's also really essential that you position yourself effectively. Sort of. Traditional marketing lessons tell us that there are three main ways of competing. If you like, you can be cost leadership, which means that you're offering a low price. You can be differentiated, which means that you're offering a kind of a unique value, or you focus so you specialize in a particular niche. Because if you try and be all three of those things, it, it very rarely works. So as part of that kind of brand consideration, I think that you need to choose a strategy which aligns with your strengths and then kind of really lean into it and remain consistent with it. I often say actually that when it's sometimes difficult to think about this in the context of your own organization. But just consider the difference. You know, take something really familiar. Consider the difference between your Aldi supermarket, your Marks and Spencer supermarket and your Village Co Op. That is the difference between kind of being that. That in that cost leadership position or being in that kind of very differentiated position or you've focused really, when I say the niche, the little Village store is probably, you know, you'll pay 40p extra for a tin of beans because they're around the corner. So just think about where you position yourself as an agency in that same way that you would think, how was Aldi decided to be different to Marks and Spencer's, to your local village co op or your local village store? That's kind of what I would add really in terms of marketing advice, if you like.
[00:21:10] Speaker A: Okay, brilliant. Really, really useful. I actually think what you've described there is actually just taking a bit of time to step back and think. Sometimes we're, we're such a busy industry and we're all about doing the do.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: But actually taking time to step back and actually think and just go, well, how am I perceived? Did I want to be perceived that way? Is the message that I'm trying to give out actually radiating, I guess from the business or is it actually hidden? And when I talk to clients I say it and do it. But actually, what if Jenny spoke to somebody or Jeremy? Is the same thing happening? Maybe we just don't take enough time to take that step back. And we know that sometimes there's things we want to change or there's a problem or there's an opportunity. But I guess maybe that's how engaging somebody like yourself, Molly, really helps because, you know, people come to you all the time, I guess with their problems or their ideas and that's how you can make them come alive.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Yeah, certainly, certainly. And you know, we, we kind of, you know, organizations do it all the time maybe without realizing, and maybe they do offer something without realizing that they just need to package it slightly differently so that it's completely understood. So, you know, for example, are you as an agency, you offering a real kind of service distinction? Do you have kind of 24, 7 guaranteed one hour response to tenants? And that's going to be kind of very different to actually being a specialist, if you like in green properties or maybe your distinction. And I'm sure there are agents out there who are portfolio growth specialists who they offer a really kind of proactive service to help landlords grow their portfolio. And it's around that real kind of landlord relationship. What is it that makes a landlord pick you versus somebody else? Make sure it's valued and make sure you communicate it. And absolutely it's that step back. Because I guess going back to the supermarkets, we all know our reasons why we go to Aldi versus Marks and Spencers versus the Co op. It's really clear and it's actually things like being rushed through Aldi, like really, really fast through that. The belt for the products is so tiny. It gives you anxiety how quick you have to pack it away and run off to the corner. But you know, that you're paying kind of, you know, 20% less than if you go to Marks and Spencer's and can have a 15 minute chat with the woman behind the counter if it's, you know, a nice relaxed day. Yeah, it's all of those kind of things. A part of those brand conversations and those, those reasons that people pick brands. What, where are you positioning yourself within that and make sure it's clear and understood.
[00:23:52] Speaker A: And I think a lot, a lot in business is about the pounds and pence and that's sometimes where marketing is the anomaly because you can't always see the results or even quantify what you get as a return for what you spend. Let's talk about marketing budgets.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: When it comes to setting a marketing budget, where do we start and what are the must do actions?
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Yeah, well look, generally speaking people suggest marketing budget should be anywhere between 5 and 10% of their revenue. With obviously the higher end being when you are looking to do something to get some quite aggressive growth.
But that's just a kind of a starting point really to give you an indication of where your marketing budget should be.
You need to identify what's actually working and what isn't. So let's go back to how you're requiring landlords. If you know that you're acquiring landlords through say word of mouth, then are you spending the right amount of money and making sure that they, that those people who are talking about you in a positive way, that those positive reviews can be heard? If you know that you're getting your activity through social media, then actually where is your budget going? Which is the right platform? Is the platform that you're working, that you're using working for you? So identify what is and isn't working and is it aligned with how, with your acquisition strategy? Because if you measure the effectiveness of the different channels then you can allocate your budget more strategically and cut out any ineffective activities. We've got more information than ever about where our marketing budgets are best deployed. If we think about Google Analytics and what that can tell us about how people found us, what we can tell about how social media has, how many times videos have been watched and whether it's led to anything. We can look at click through rates on emails, we can see what's working. We might have buy a database email that goes out to, you know, 1500 people, how many people opened it and what was the cost of, of that on a per open or a click through basis. The information is there. We need to be looking at the success and cutting away what doesn't work so you can reallocate those budgets accordingly and kind of be sensible as well. We talked earlier about what things you should outsource and in fact going back to your pod with Sally Lawson. She reminds us to value our time and focus on high impact activities, but don't take everything on yourself. If you're not an expert, kind kind of don't do it.
And don't just do stuff because the guy next door does it. If you're confident in your brand and you have an offering which is genuinely different, then be confident in selecting your own marketing activities and reaching customers that way.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Well, I think you've given a whole host of things for our listeners to think about and some brilliant advice.
We'll obviously put Molly's details up on our post, so if anyone wants to get in touch, you're more than welcome. I would highly recommend her. Thank you. But Molly, thank you very much for your time. Like I said, I could sit and listen all day to all the things and I've written down about five things myself that's made me actually think about TLH as we've been going on. But as all of our listeners know, we always try to end every podcast by asking our guests for a funny story or anecdote. Do you have a good one for us today?
[00:27:34] Speaker B: Well, I hope so. There have been some really good ones over the over the various series. But so one day I, I arrived at work and I just, well, something didn't feel quite right. Something felt a bit off and when I looked down I realized that I had managed to put on two completely different shoes.
[00:27:52] Speaker A: Oh, they were both black.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: They were fairly similar, but one had a slightly higher heel than the other one was bit pointed toe. The other one was a bit rounded. But I literally spent the rest of the day kind of walking around a bit wonky, probably looking like I had one leg shorter than the other.
I was quite embarrassed about it, but I, there was nothing I could do about it. I kind of did, you know, explain to people and we had a laugh about it. But Heidi, since then I have actually kept my shoes in the boot of my car. All of my, not pretty much all of my shoes in the boot of my car. So I am partly so I'm always prepared. But also it also means that I've actually been able to kind of discreetly hide just how many pairs of shoes I've accumulated over the years. But just don't tell Stu.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Let's hope he's not listening. That's quite a good idea because you always get caught short on something and I've known that myself. Obviously very recently I broke my ankle and I've had to go back to flats now. I was never, I mean obviously in my earlier days, younger days I was definitely a high heeled person, but then have gone for middle mid level shoes, let's say for a while. But yeah, it's quite an art having whatever you need in your car whenever you need it.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: I found as well actually that driving in heels actually kind of can ruin the heel of your as well. So actually it was quite useful for that. And then you get in the boot and realize that you've got kind of black tights on and you've only got sort of, you know, white shoes and it's like. So yeah, having a selection definitely works.
[00:29:21] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely right. To ensure everybody never misses an episode of let's Talk, Let, please follow us on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast. Please leave us a review so we can get your feedback and know what you'd like to hear next. Thank you all very much for listening and a big thank you to you, Molly. Let's Talk let's An original podcast from the Lettings Hub.
